ribbons - Navy Mertorious Unit

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ribbons - Navy Mertorious Unit

Postby bayside » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:18 pm

Having left Vietnam the end of December 67 on leave, am I still officially with 2/9 until I report to my next duty station? Also what operations qualify for the Navy Meritorious Unit Commendation?

Marines please consider volunteering at your VA Medical Center you will find it very rewarding and receive a big SEMPER FI from your fellow Marines

Fear Is Not a Option ~ Dan Crawford
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Re: ribbons - Navy Mertorious Unit

Postby Doug Goodin » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:28 am

Dan,
Did you ever receive an answer to your question about MUCs awarded 2/9 during your tour?
SF - Doug
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Re: ribbons - Navy Mertorious Unit

Postby bayside » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:45 pm

Hi Doug,
I am a member of the Marine Corps League and trying to figure out what ribbons I am authorized to wear?
Vietnam - 22Nov.66 to 3Dec.67. am I officially with 2/9 until I report to my next duty station? Question can I wear the Navy Unit Commendation ribbon? reported to Pendleton in 68.
Thanks, Dan
Fear is not a option,
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Re: ribbons - Navy Mertorious Unit

Postby Doug Goodin » Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:46 pm

Error
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Re: ribbons - Navy Mertorious Unit

Postby Doug Goodin » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:55 pm

Dan,

Based on the info you supplied. No, you are not assigned to 2/9 until you arrive at your next duty station - you are "in-transit" and it does not matter with regards to unit award ribbons that you may be authorized to wear.

Based on the dates you provided I have concluded that you may be eligible and/or authorized to wear/display two unit award ribbons: The Navy Presidential Unit Citation (PUC) and the Navy Meritorious Unit Commendation (MUC) with one bronze star indicating two awards.

If you look at the Honors document posted by Danny Schuster you will note that you were with 2/9 during which 2/9 was awarded a Navy PUC and two MUCs...to be eligible and authorized to wear the award ribbon you must have actually participated in the event or operation cited. If your DD-214 does not list the awards then you should go online, down load the form to have your DD-214 updated or corrected...they will not issue a new DD-214 but will issue a DD-215 (Not sure if number is correct - will check mine later). The DD-215 will list any corrections, additions and/or deletions if appropriate. Good luck with this process. I filed all the paper work a few years back and provided a ton of information regarding the omissions on my DD-214...it took over two years to receive a reply and it was still incomplete...a nice way of saying they still got it wrong! GOOD LUCK!

I have no idea what personal awards you may have received...Purple Heart, Combat Action Ribbon, Good Conduct Medal etc. but based on your tour-of-duty dates with 2/9 you appear to be authorized to wear the following awards for your service with 2/9 in Vietnam - they are listed in the correct order of precedence when worn...

PUC; MUC w/ 1 bronze star; National Defense Service Medal; Vietnam Service Medal w/ 2 bronze stars; Republic of Vietnam Meritorious Unit Citation - Gallantry Cross with Palm & Frame; Republic of Vietnam Meritorious Unit Citation - Civil Actions 1st Class w/ Palm & Frame and the Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal.

All of the previous medals and awards were listed on the DD-215 that I received and since we served in country at the same time you may be assured that it is correct. I did receive a PH and a Combat Action Ribbon (CR) and these awards are worn / displayed first.

Semper Fi.
Doug
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Re: ribbons - Navy Mertorious Unit

Postby bayside » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:16 pm

Doug , I received a Purple Heart on Operation Kingfisher, am I authorized to wear a Combat Action Ribbon?

Thanks again for all your help

Semper Fi
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Re: ribbons - Navy Mertorious Unit

Postby Fasst1 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:09 pm

bayside wrote:Doug , I received a Purple Heart on Operation Kingfisher, am I authorized to wear a Combat Action Ribbon?

Thanks again for all your help

Semper Fi
Dan Crawford


Dan,
I think you have to apply for it. If I recall it was automatic if you had a Purple Heart. When I applied way back in 1968 there was a form with a series of a dozen or so questions on it. If the answer to any of them was yes ( and I did not have a Purple Heart), you qualified and would receive the award of the ribbon. I do not have any idea what type of proof you may have to offer today or if it is automatic because you received the Purple Heart.

Danny
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Re: ribbons - Navy Mertorious Unit

Postby Doug Goodin » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:47 am

Dan and Danny,

When I was discharged in 1968 my DD-214 only showed five awards/ribbons...my first letter requesting military records was about 5 years after I received my Honorable Discharge certificate in March of 1972 (1966-1972). When i received my first response it showed two additional awards, a CR (Combat Action Ribbon and one MUC (Meritorious Unit Commendation). At the time I had no idea what the MUC was for and did not know anything about the CR. I did learn that the CR was a Personal Award for participation in ground combat...thus began my search for a copy of the citation for the MUC and the citation for the CR...it also resulted in learning the Lineage and Honors of 2/9. I learned that the MUCs that we earned were actually presented or awarded after my return to CONUS in Jan 1968. The Combat Action Ribbon was also established by the Secretary of the Navy in February 1969 and at the time was retro-active to 1961. It was later retro active to December 7, 1941.

After several letters and many years...I believe my records are accurate today...showing two MUCs and the addition of the Republic of Vietnam Meritorious Unit Citation - Civil Action...for a total of ten awards - nine ribbons. I was probably driven in my quest more because of frustration and a feeling that the Marine Corps much like society at the time didn't care about us...I don't feel that way today...I realize that it's just the system...too large and complicated. Anyway, I have attached some info re the CR below...realize that the criteria for the award is different today. For example...many Marines who endured the 77 day Seige of Khe Sanh in 1968 do not rate the CR unless they actually were engaged in ground combat and returned fire...Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan apparently rate a CR if they came under fire from an IED and did not return fire...?!?!

The principal eligibility criterion is that the individual must have participated in a bona fide ground or surface combat fire-fight or action during which he/she was under enemy fire and his/her performance while under fire was satisfactory. Service in a combat area does not automatically entitle a service member to the CAR.
(e) Personnel eligible for the award of the Purple Heart would not necessarily qualify for the Combat Action Ribbon.


My advise is for Dan to request a copy of his records and go from there...if you were on Kingfisher and were wounded you probably have a CR in your records especially if you were engaged and returned fire that day...many of us were and did...

Semper Fi.
Doug
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Re: ribbons - Navy Mertorious Unit

Postby Fasst1 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:40 pm

Doug,
Based on what you see below you do NOT have to have returned fire to qualify for the CAR. Also, see the fifth eligibility criteria on the list. Based on that criteria anyone who was involved during the seige of Khe Sanh IS eligible. Sorry for the condition of the paperwork, but I think it is understandable after 44 years!

Danny

PS This is a form letter received from CMC or FMFPac (not sure which), in 1969 after the CAR was created.

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Re: ribbons - Navy Mertorious Unit

Postby Doug Goodin » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:17 am

Danny,

Read your post and appreciate the attachment...I have never seen the form, and yes based on what you have presented it would make sense that anyone who served at Khe Sanh during the 77 Day Siege would be eligible, but, based on many posts from numerous Khe Sanh Veterans that is not the case. Many of these Marines have been denied the CAR several times...even after the criteria was changed by CMC Hagee (sp?) which included IEDs retro-active ONLY to 2001. The interesting thing about the inclusion of IEDs was the wording regarding no enemy combatants present at the time of the IED being detonated...During the Seige, "in-coming" artillery, rockets and mortars were fired by enemy combatants, some of whom were very close by, yet these Marines were DENIED the CAR.

Apparently, you were still on active duty when the award was established and the form was developed to facilitate active-duty personnel to apply for the award. I never had to apply for it...it just showed up on my records following one of my requests for my records. I left active duty in July 1968, seven months prior to the award being established. My military records were updated several times since I left active duty and based on what I know today they include all of the awards that I am authorized to wear/display. When I think about somebody updating my records post active-duty service to include information that was published and provided after my records were filed somewhere is pretty amazing considering the number of men and women who served.

Good hearing from you...Semper Fi.
Doug
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Re: ribbons - Navy Mertorious Unit

Postby Doug Goodin » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:57 pm

Danny,

Have been contemplating the form you provided...several thoughts and questions have puzzled my mind...why is that only Khe Sanh/Camp Carroll are listed on the form and not other combat bases i.e. Con Thien, Gio Linh, Da Nang...etc.etc.????? 2/9 was at Con Thien for a short time in October 1967, a time when the base averaged over 1,000 in-coming rounds daily...I recall spending a lot of time operating out of Camp Carroll and I don't ever recall receiving the quantity of in-coming that we did at Con Thien or Strong Point Base A-3.

The second item on the form also applies to anyone who was at Khe Sanh...after 77 days of in-coming I'm sure that most everyone on the base was within the bursting radius of an enemy explosive one time or another...too many times I'm sure...

I'm going to pass a copy of your request to a member of the Khe Sanh Veterans who I believe has written about being denied the CAR while at Khe Sanh...from what I've read about the Siege in 1968, I think anyone who was there should be authorized to wear the ribbon especially considering the criteria regarding exposure to IEDs. beginning in 2001...is an in-coming round any different than an IED?? I think not...make it retro-active...to Dec 7, 1941.

Doug
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